I want to share with you an actual scenario i witnessed last year. There are some instances where social and moral guidelines, like in the following circumstance, that conflict with and test the boundaries of NAP. I would like for you to consider this very real scenario and explain what you would do in this situation if it were you.

I was visiting New Orleans a year ago; and outside of a music venue in between sets I noticed a man and a woman arguing. Judging them by their appearance, the man was over weight and the woman with a tall burly body. She was in his face screaming about how much of a piece of shit he is and causing quite a remarkable scene. I couldnt determine if she was high on drugs or just below average intelligence, but it evoked the attention of all of the people standing in front of the venue, especially when she slapped him in his fat face. I watched on as he stood their emotionless. I wanted to see what he would do next, because i really didnt know what to anticipate at this point. She continued bellowing in his face like the white trash wrangler she was, slapped him his face yet AGAIN. At this point i was like JEES just get the fuck out of there man this is going no where good, fast. Ive been in similar dramatic scenarios before where a very poisonous mentally unstable woman can insult you and even entice you with violence like this woman clearly was doing in order for you to lower yourself to their level. Now she is screaming about his clothes and saying that she bought him the clothes he wears and the shirt on his back, and says what a lazy, worthless, fat piece of shit he is etc etc. She starts trying to RIP HIS SHIRT OFF. At this point he starts to waddle away from her to avoid getting stripped naked. This hillbilly heroin then lunges at him from behind, punching him as hard as she can into his back and behind his head as he tries to scramble away. She is clearly not a dainty woman. She grabs the neck of his shirt and stretches it out and while punching the back of his head swings and gets him right in the face with her fist- AND THAT WAS THE FINAL BLOW. A knee jerk reaction to this i saw coming- he went to punch her in the face and barely hit the greasy target. Immediately after that swing-and-a-miss he tried to follow through with a full on lovers bumpkin brawl; but at the exact moment he was still throwing the first punch, the several gawking men watching decided to turn into heros and start charging toward the dude. Its funny they said nothinn as the girl was pummeling the shit out of him; but the moment he turned his anger on to her, my first reaction was to separate him from the aggressor- but they were all ready to roll this guy for punching a girl. My friend was watching from the balcony and i simultaneously ran toward the couple and before the man had a chance to land himself into deep shit we ushered him into safety. As the woman approached my friend we both overpowered her with our presence and my friend told her to fucking beat it. My friend moved the dude across the street and we told him the hell with that chick.

Naturally most of you are already saying to yourself; easy scenario- why even wait for it to get this bad in the first place, just walk away? Well i told him the same thing. He said that he couldn't because "she was his ride". Ugh so we told him to stay away from her and get a taxi, he said he lived an hour away.... So we said call a friend or do anything but dont hang around that crazy bitch because you'll be spending the night in jail. Meanwhile as we walk back to the venue some of the heros were saying out loud "FUCK that guy you dont hit a girl, somebody call the cops". I said "FUCK cops, we dont need a baby sitter here we handled this ourselves". We went back inside for the show and later that night i was dumbfounded when I saw honey bear again with his Cajun cracker standing next to each other. It was a real redneck romance.

So my question is essentially, what do you do in a situation where an irrational WOMAN strikes a MAN; and say you are not in the position to escape the situation? The NAP says you can return that aggression in self defense, but following an even higher moral ground that we can never hit a woman- how would you deal with this scenario?

Either this post is a joke, or you are incredibly sexist. What in the world makes you think women are exempt from following the NAP? Women, men, and all other rational moral agents (possible aliens, future robots, etc) should be treated exactly the same way.

And nobody is ever obligated to defend anyone else, woman or not.

I really don't see any reason such a scenario could be at all tricky to any libertarian...

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"Here, every citizen is king; for he has plenitude of power, he reigns and governs." - P.J. Proudhon

well that was unexpected. So a smooth bolo punch to her face would of been the correct thing to do? This was the last answer i would think of

"Fuck cops, we don't need a babysitter here, we can handle ourselves. " -Cane



NAP? What the hell is that? You people with your rule books and manuals baffle me. There is no instruction manual for libertarians. That's the whole point.

I could answer half of the posts on this board just like that. People say stuff like "A libertarian should be a vegetarian" or " a libertarian should adhere to my philosophy of earth rights" or a libertarian should be a student of something called a NAP, and so on. Anytime someone starts a sentence with "a libertarian should or must do [the following]" I just want to take their program and throw it on a dumpster fire.

Cane,
There are some situations that are just a big mess and there ain't no A+B=Solution. It sounds like you handled the situation about as well as possible. I'd like to think I would have done the same thing.

I'm not sure there was a "correct" option for response in this scenario. Hindset is always 20/20, too.

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Facebook page for my organization, Liberty Dialogue.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Liberty-Dialogue/122105484601802

In today's world - run from her. Just run away. If she kills you with a blow to the back of the head, at least you won't be in jail and spend the rest of your life on a special "domestic violence" list. It's different if women are violent, even funny - don't 'cha know?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrvDhSB7GHk

But seriously, you will "go to jail" if you defend yourself - this inequity (along with other double-standards) perpetuates division and resentment, which the Elites need to keep us fighting with each other, so they can stay in power. This is why Rockefeller and the CIA promoted / funded Gloria Steinman and "feminism" (versus "masculinism"?) instead of "gender equality" - why every university has a department which offers what are, essentially, "man-hate" classes called "women's studies." Using a government-check to replace fathers is another factor (kick him out and get free money).

This is not to deny previously existing inequities - only to show that the "remedies" offered were toxic.

As far as your handling of that situation - I think you did a good job. You can't help it that the abused keep running back to their abusers (male and female).

As far as where this seeming idiocy comes from, aside from how the "criminal-justice system" reacts to it: I was talking to a friend who described how his father would beat him, his sister, his mother, etc. I remarked how terrible that behavior was, whereupon he immediately switched sides and defended his "dad." Most never self-analyze the the child-abuse that starts that pattern, and so, keep repeating it, because they would have to take their abusive parents down from the "holy parental pedestal" and, likely, question their own abusive practices.

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--- See a fuller explanation of my research and proposals here ---

Purely empirically, if you had men and women of equal strength and size, then there is no difference. The classical difference as to why it is wrong is because men are thought to be able to significantly overpower and dominate women in the physical category, but this difference is not always true.

Studies have been coming out lately saying how women are often more abusive than men in partner relationships, whether physically or verbally.

Stefan Molyneux talks about how his personal experience as a child (and those who he was friends with as a kid) were almost exclusively abused by physically stronger female figures- namely teachers and mothers. He was very confused upon hearing for the first time that males are the violent gender, for all violence perpetrated against him was by females to that point.

The idea of not hitting a woman is not some higher moral level than the idea that you should not aggress against any rational being. A man hitting a woman also needs to take into an account that the physical force can be superior. (For instance, if I get 5 bucks stolen from me, most would find it unreasonable to defend that money with deadly force. However, when deadly force is threatened against me, deadly force in defense is more universally accepted.)

Besides these considerations, it is immoral to use force against anyone, and appropriate use of force in defense of oneself or one's property is justified. Women do not gain a special power to be able to use force with no repercussions to the lack of appropriate defensive force being able to be used against them.

This all stems from a history of masochism and the cultural belief that men are strong and violent, while women are dainty and innocent. This is not true and we should extend humanity and the responsibilities of that to both men and women.

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I support anarchism because I want to communicate rather than use the force of the state to attempt to solve complex problems. I hope you would show me the same courtesy. If not, I do not wish to be around someone who prefers guns to communication...

I like that thought I've always had a little Stirner or Novatore sitting in the back of my head telling me all this dogmatic logical web is just that - an abstraction.

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"Here, every citizen is king; for he has plenitude of power, he reigns and governs." - P.J. Proudhon

Ok, I had to look up "NAP" because I didn't immediately know what it stood for.
There is a simple problem to your dilemma. Simply stop hanging out at white trash bars & you wont have to subject yourself to the problems that exist between trashy low life drunks like these two individuals. Let them pummel themselves into bloody oblivion if they want. If this guy wants to put up with her shit because "she is his ride" then maybe he deserves a punch in the face. You gotta allow people to deal with the consequences of their actions or they're never going to evolve.

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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." ~ Henry David Thoreau